Monday, September 26, 2011
Question for September 28: Sidney (8:00 class)
Sir Phillip Sidney has been called "the logician in love"--meaning that his sonnets about Stella show his interest in logical thinking rather than great passion. Based on your reading of sonnets 1, 20, 47 and 91 (pages 975-76, 979, 983, and 989-90), what do you think? Are you convinced that Sidney is in love, or is he merely trying to impress his readers? Use examples from the sonnets to back up your answer.
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Sidney’s sonnets, whether written to attain the attention of his love or for an attempt at increased renown, are romantic poems so it can be difficult to tell if he’s just trying to impress his readers when he would still be writing about love even if glory was his only aim. In fact, the more he wanted to impress critics the more difficult it would be to tell the difference as his poems would become increasingly believable; as in truth it is. But I believe Sidney was only making a bid for acclaimed writing for a few reasons. Astrophil and Stella is believed to be written around the time Sidney married his wife, but the collection of sonnets and songs is not believed to star his wife as Stella, but instead a woman Sidney courted for a few years who had recently been married off to another man. A marriage had been proposed between the two but instead they drifted apart, if love was the sole inspiration for these passionate sonnets then Sidney might not have given up so easily, or still continued writing and releasing romantic poems of another woman. As exemplified in the text, Sidney’s sonnets could be inspired by love or a very crafty fake love to fool readers like the lines, “Biting my trewand pen, beating myself for spite, “Fool,” said my Muse to me, “look in thy heart and write.” an obvious hint towards the formulation his poems; or the astonishingly deep lines, “Dear, therefore be not jealous over me, if you hear that they seem my heart to move: not them, O no, but you in them I love.” could both be symbols of his strong feelings of love, or a very impressive staging of them.
ReplyDeleteIn my personal opinion, I would have to disagree with Dandelion. For many writers, a goal of ones work may be to impress the readers; however, I do not think this was the case with Sydney and his sonnets. I believe these works represent the love which Sydney held for Penelope Devereux, the supposed Stella. Yes, Sydney and Penelope did end up marrying other people, but this did not mean they fell out of love with one another. Both were of high social ranks, and their families negotiated the marriages, not the individuals. In other words, both probably married to please their families when really they wanted to marry each other. I think this situation in which Sydney found himself in is what made his sonnets full of passion and longing. He could not marry the girl he truly loved. In sonnet one, Sydney writes “but words came halting forth, wanting Invention's stay,” expressing his aggravation at not being able to form or invent the words in which he wants to express. One may see this is Sydney trying to find words that could possibly impress his audience, but I do not view this is his motive. I think he is frustrated that he can not put his strong feelings into words. In regards to Dandelion's interpretation of the line, “Fool,” said my Muse to me, “look in thy heart and write,” I think this was Sydney realizing that he has to stop thinking so hard at forming the correct words to express his feelings. Instead he needs to go with the flow and “look in thy heart and write.”
ReplyDeleteWith answering the questions I would say he is still in love with Stella but I also feel he is trying to impress his readers. I would have to agree with decaff I honestly believe that Sidney could still be in love with Stella, the reason i feel that way is because not being able to see or marry the woman you truly love could be heart taking and sad which causes his depression and to write these poems because to me they were sad as well. When he stated at the beginning of sonnet 1 that “Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know” that made me think that he still has feelings for her and she has a tad bit of feeling for him then she would pick up and read and realize how he has been feeling all these years. With reading it made me feel he was unhappy with marriage he had now by saying “or want I sense to feel my misery?” The reason I feel he is also just saying some of these things to impress his readers is because readers build connections off real life stories and other people experiences because they may be able to relate more.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Anonymous, I think he is still in love with Stella. However, I disagree that he is trying to impress his readers. I do agree with her that when readers read his sonnets they will relate more if he tries to impress them. But I truly DO NOT think that he is writing to impress, I feel he is writing from his heart. If he ends up impressing the reader, hey, that is a plus but I believe he is just dying to reach out for help through his sonnets. In sonnet 47 he says “Let her go. Soft, but here she comes. Go to, Unkind, I love you not. O me, that eye Doth make my heart give to my tongue the lie.” Lines as this one, I feel his pain and it makes me also feel his unhappiness and his hurt. Maybe people might think he is being logical but I think he is just wallowing in love. I think his sonnets are all a direct correlation for his love for Stella. Another example of Sidney’s love for Stella is in sonnet 91 in the opening lines, “Stella, while now by Honor’s cruel might I am from you, my sun, thus overspread with absence’ veil, I live in Sorrow’s night, If this dark place yet shew, like candlelight, some beauty’s piece, as amber-colored head.” I think it is safe to say Sidney is in love and far from just trying to feed his readers a bunch of crap. What he is going through and feeling is real.
ReplyDeleteI'd have to mostly agree with Dandelion. I think it's very possible that Sidney is still in love with Stella, but it's more likely he is writing his sonnets with the intention of impressing readers. I think he could be drawing on his experience with Stella, and maybe remembering the heartbreak he felt when she married someone else for inspiration, but isn't still feeling for her. Sidney was a very private person, going as far as to write an angry letter to his father's private secretary demanding that their correspondence remain secret. I have to assume that someone who would be so protective of his feelings/relationships would not voluntarily publish the deepest feelings of his heart for everyone to read. I definitely think he could be using his past feelings for Stella as inspiration, but I think all it is is past emotions. Decaff13 and Anonymous both mention the possibility that Sidney is unhappy with his marriage because he is still stuck on Stella... I think he could have had extremely strong feelings for her at one time, but they are both married to different people now and he is just trying to further his renown by drawing on those old emotions to write beautiful poetry. "Stella, while now by Honor's cruel might I am from you, light of my life, mis-led, And that fair you, my sun, thus overspread With absense' veil, I live in Sorrow's night." Sidney is writing romantic, inspirational, wonderful sonnets but I find it so hard to believe that a person who was rumored to be so private would be fine with writing such personal words for the world to see. Sidney is a poet who writes romantic verses, he has to get inspiration somewhere, why can't it be from a past love? Just because he uses their relationship as inspiration doesn't mean he's still not over it.
ReplyDeleteI would have to agree with Anonymous. I would like to add that when I first read the sonnets, I was just a tad bit confused on whether the sonnets were talking about Sidney or Astrophil, but after reading a little bit more, I got a better understanding as to who was in love with Stella. As I was saying, Anonymous made alot of sense. I think he was in love; however, I don't think that he was trying to impress his audience. I say this because he would have made the sonnets more easier to relate to because I couldn't tell where Stella was giving him feedback. Personally, it seemed like he focused less on whether the audience related and more on Stella. In my opinion, I think love was in the air because for him to write all these different sonnets about one woman, there had to be love somewhere in the picture. With lines from sonnet 91 like "And fair you, my sun, thus overspread With absence' veil, I live in Sorrow's night", lets me know that he was in love. He was saying that without her in his presence, he lived in sorrow. To me, that's a strong feeling to have to not be in love. In these sonnets he showed strong love and affection for this woman. It was so strong, at times I thought he may have an obsession problem.
ReplyDeleteI agree with dandelion as well Sidney is still in love with Stella. He seems to be a perfectionist based on what his sonnets say. "look in thy heart and write" is an example of him getting aggravated that he can not seem to find the right words to say. This quotation leads me to believe that Sidney really does love her because if you cared about a girl then you would not just write her a little note that was not well thought of and planed out, you would take time to think of the right words to say. You would want to be logical and romantic at the same time. Basically he wanted his sonnets to make sense while at the same time trying to express his love in the best way possible. Sidney also says "with absence veil, i live in sorrows night". This shows that he misses Stella terribly. If he did not love her then he would not miss her. His sonnets are very impressing but at the same time have a message to Stella that can not be overlooked.
ReplyDeleteI think that Sidney is in love. If he wanted to simply show his logic then he would choose different to topics to write about. Love is a beautiful thing, and only those who have truly experienced it can write such great literary works about it. Sir Phillip Sidney was deeply in love with Penelope Devereux, who is the supposed inspiration of the character Stella. Although they were in love with each other, their families thought it would be best if they married into other families. During this time in history, marriage unions were decided by the parents so that they may benefit economically or socially. Both families came from high social standing, but their families decided they should marry into other families.
ReplyDeleteI think that these sonnets were Sidney’s way of expressing his love for a girl, Stella, who he can never have. I think this is his way of keeping their love alive while simultaneously coping with he and her marrying other people. In sonnet 91 he says, “With absence’ veil, I live in Sorrow’s night, If this dark place yet she, like candlelight.” I think that this quote is saying that being away from her leaves him in a dark place in Sorrow’s night. He is lost and unhappy without her. I think that this quote proves the love he has for her.
By: Dream Big
It’s hard to know whether or not Sidney is still in love with Stella or ever loved Stella but I agree with innisfree in the sense that he writing to impress readers. Sidney does in fact captivate the pains of coping with a lost love however, I fell that the analogies and dynamics of his poems are extremely invested upon. It’s still hard to question his natural motives or creativity but in sonnet 20, he writes a story about a young bird (or other flying creature) who is hiding in a bush and is unfortunately shot by cupid’s arrow. “And then descried the glist’ring of his dart; but ere I could fly thence, it pierc’d my heart.” In Sonnet 47 he compares himself to a shackled slave who would not be reluctant for an abandonment of his thoughts. To me, these two poems particularly involve a suspicious amount of creativity and were probably meant to entertain and not express emotions so much, though arguable. In sonnet 1, I do feel that Sidney is actually expressing his own personal experience with “Stella” and the fact that he is too shy to talk to her and tell her how much he longs for her. The reason I think that his first sonnet is genuine is the fact that he brings a humanistic approach to the writing in that sonnet as opposed to comparing his troubles with a generic analogy such as shackled in chains. Sidney ,in my personal, view is writing about some troubles he had with a woman, but just doing so in an entertaining fashion.
ReplyDeleteI agree with those who said that Sir phillip Sidney’s love is genuine. It takes one who is truly in love to find the words which accurately describe an almost indescribable feeling. Common sense tells me that, if we are reading it in a literature book, then it must have gotten a good amount of attention. Works only get attention if they are good, or if they are so bad that its worthy to share with others how amazing bad a work is. Sidney’s poems aren’t horrible so they must have garnered attention because the works are admired. This refers me back to my original statement: If someone writes about love, and does it well, that person must truly be in love because those who aren’t genuinely in love couldn’t begin to capture and almost indescribable feeling. I know I shouldn’t be so quick to assume that since I’m reading this sonnet in a literature book, this work is good/well done, but that’s what sense I make of it. Sidney clearly writes about love in his sonnets, whether genuine or not. “Stella, while now by Honor’s cruel might – I am from you, light of my life, mis-led, - And that fair you, my sun, thus overspread – With absence’ veil, I live in Sorrow’s night – If this dark place yet shew, like candlelight” (Sindey pg 989) The imagery, describing the feeling of not being with Stella, convinces me that his love in genuine. Although he does seem to talk about love in a strangely straightforward way, I have no way of knowing that Sidney is unable to add logic to his passion.
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