Friday, November 18, 2011
Question for November 21: Swift and Montagu
After reading Jonathan Swift's poem, "The Lady's Dressing Room" (pages 2590-93), and Lady Mary Wortley Montagu's response in "The Reasons That Induced Dr. Swift to Write a Poem Called the Lady's Dressing Room" (pages 2593-95), consider the following questions: What seem to be Swift's purpose and main idea in his poem? How about Lady Montagu's purpose and main idea in her poem? How does Montagu imitate the form and content of Swift's poem? Which poem do you prefer, and why?
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Ha-ha! Wow, these poems are hilarious. I think that in Swifts original poem “The Lady’s Dressing Room,” he is trying to prove that women are filthy. This poem is very funny but I can also see how it can be taken the wrong way by readers, especially women. I also think he is trying to point out that even the most beautiful women have their nasty habits. Maybe he feels as if women attack men for being unclean but in reality women are just the same, they just hide it better than men do. He however does make several rude comments about Celia like, “A nasty compound of all hues, For here she spits, and here she spews.” (line 41-42) Lady Montagu’s response poem, “The Reasons That Induced Dr. Swift to Write a Poem Called the Lady’s Dressing Room” is, to me, even funnier than the original poem. She talks about women being pressed from society and men to look to part of a perfect woman. In lines 69-73 she references back to Swift’s original poem. She claims that the reason Swift write the poem was because he has gotten burned by a woman before. "The Reverend Lover with surprize Peeps in her Bubbys, and her Eyes, And kisses both, and trys -- and trys. The Evening in this Hellish Play, Beside his Guineas thrown away, Provok'd the Priest to that degree he swore, the Fault is not in me." She claims that Swift wrote the poem after experiencing sexual disappointment with a prostitute. Although, Montagu’s poem is a bit harsh, I think that it is called for. Women do so much to try to fill the roles of the perfect woman and these days it isnt easy.
ReplyDeleteThe purpose of Swift's poem was to accuse women of being hypocrites towards men. Swift points out that Women, as said in the previous blog are filthy, just as filthy as men. Swift allows the audience to realize that women have distasteful habits just as men, however, women are able to hide it in the "dressing room." Th dressing room is represented as a place where women reveal their true selfs and allow their nasty habits to show. Women appear as hypocrites because they constantly get on men for their proactive habits when they are just the same, except they can hide it better! Montagu's response to Swift's poem in her “The Reasons That Induced Dr. Swift to Write a Poem Called the Lady’s Dressing Room” is a defense towards Swift's attack to women. She explains that Swift's reasoning in insulting women for their nasty habits is that he has a grudge against all women because he was dumped by a women he loved. Swift's poem can now be viewed as a personal poem of hatred towards that specific woman that had broke his heart. Montagu also adds that women aren't perfect! Back then, and now it is almost impossible to fill the role of a perfect women. All women have flaws, even though they try to hide them, this is because they try to view themselves as the perfect woman that all men desire. In short, women expose all their flaws/nasty habits in the dressing room, because they have to in order for men to view them as the perfect woman model.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading what two women have posted already, my blog will take quite a different view. First off, I think Swift's poem "The Lady's dressing room", is epic. Unlike every other poem that speaks about a woman's beautiful nature and charming personality (Donne), Swift aims to reveal the imperfections and nastiness of women behind closed doors. Yes, men are brutish and gross but who needs to write a poem about something everyone knows? Swift's satire sheds light on a subject in a way that none dared to touch before him. His opinion of the habits of women can best be explained in his closing lines when he says, "He soon would learn to think like me, And bless his ravisht Sight to see Such Order from Confusion sprung, Such gaudy Tulips rais'd from Dung." Montagu's rebuttal of Swift's poem is typical of a women, harsh. Of course women have a certain image basically forced upon them they feel obligated to meet. She blames an embarrassing encounter of love/lust to Swift's satirical tirade when she says, "The Reverend Lover with surprize
ReplyDeletePeeps in her Bubbys, and her Eyes, And kisses both, and trys -- and trys.
The Evening in this Hellish Play, Beside his Guineas thrown away, Provok'd the Priest to that degree he swore, the Fault is not in me." The two poems are unique in a sense because Swift reveals a subject that is often overlooked while Montagu proposes a few reasons for Swift's intentions- which is just as comical as the poem she is rebuking.
I agree with Blueshark about how it is understandable how some people could be offended by Swifts poem. Yet, how can one not laugh at this blatent literary humor! I think that Swift did an amazing job by using a different approach not usually seen at this time. He is not trying to win a woman over, or speaking about his one true love. He is giving women a taste of their own medicine and it's about time. I especially like the attention to detail, such as when he says, "Beneathed the armpits well besmeared." I can only imagine a mans humorous expression as they read this, while any woman who read this would be utterly disgusted by a man who ousted their filth in such a degrading manner.I was glad to see Lady Montagu returned fire with fire as she did not just lay into men, but in Swift directly. At times it seemed a bit over the top but it was needed to convey the true meanings of both these poems. I was shocked to see some of the language used by a woman, but was very amused by it and could see this was no joking matter. The final line truly made me laugh when she said, "You'll furnish paper when I shite." With regards to what the previous two posts said about the image of the ideal woman. For many guys, the ideal image is actually pretty easy for a woman to attain. Yet, women would have to give up their “independence” and want of feminine dominance and be a stay home wife, cook, clean, etc.. Which I can hear the women saying, oh that’s just a mans ego, what a Neanderthal! Yet for our parents, especially our grandparents that was the ideal. Most guys don’t care whether you are wearing Gucci or Wal-Mart brand. Shoot most of us couldn’t even tell the difference. If you look good, you will look good. On a final note, no woman can lie that when they dress up it is not just to impress guys. It is equal if not greater that they impress other women and strut their stuff.-queso
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the two poems I would have to agree with swimmergal he basically is calling women hypocrites and that all women act as if men are so filthy when we really are behind closed doors. At the beginning of "The Lady's Dressing Room" (Line1)Five hours(and who can do it less) I feel he was being funny saying it takes Celia this long to get dressed all for this and this is what she really has going on. In "The lady dressing Room" he made it seem like women think they are perfect and that cant portray the things that men aren't afraid to. In my opinion I just feel its more lady like to not portray those characteristics if a woman does have them and that's why some women hide behind them, and to get perfection which is close to a woman you have to go through some of the things such as he said in line 55&56 (a pair of tweezers next he found to pluck her brows in arches round)as blueshark said its hilarious. I feel that in The reason that Induced Dr.Swift it was more so women look at the riches a man have before they become interested when thats not true in all cases. But i do feel that some men think that women should have to dress up to impress them, I think they related each other because it was somewhat a defense to how he dogged women. So its kind of like society should make their mind up if women should be able to be themselves which could very well be a nasty person or dress up or be fake. I honestly just think it shouldnt matter you should do what makes you happy.
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